Kim Chi’s TikTok is @kimchieats. Not “Kim Chi does make-up,” not “Kim Chi from RuPaul’s Drag Race,” however Kim Chi, the drag queen and entrepreneur, eats. She eats Chipotle and cooks Korean beef radish stew. She sums up her consuming adventures whereas touring the world, and even partnered with Imodium and Pepcid AC for some gastrointestinal realness. So when she approached her buddy chef Jon Kung of YouTube’s Kung Meals about doing a podcast collectively, might it have been about something however meals?
Kim Chi and Kung’s new podcast, 1 for the Desk, is like hanging out with two buddies who’ve the perfect restaurant suggestions. They discuss concerning the significance of rice throughout cultures and hating licorice desserts, the variations between superb eating in New York and LA, and nearly all attention-grabbing issues they’ve needed to eat just lately. They’re humorous and opinionated, and most of all curious. As Kung says, the 2 of them are the sort to strive something not simply as soon as however twice.
Largely, they each wished an opportunity to speak about meals much more than they already do. However in addition they wished to rejoice how a ardour for meals can come from wherever; you don’t need to be an knowledgeable to like or speak about it. We spoke to Kim Chi and Kung concerning the similarities between Korean and Chinese language cultures, the few dishes they’ve a tough time consuming, and if there may be such a factor as queer meals.
Eater: How did you two meet?
Kim Chi: Jon and I first met at Motor Metropolis Delight in 2016. I used to be in my dressing room and Jon truly stumbled in drunk along with his buddy. Later the promoter requested me, “Would you like me to take you out to dinner at a restaurant or do you need to have a non-public chef cook dinner for you?” I used to be like, “Oh, I’ll get the personal chef to cook dinner for me.” The chef was truly Jon. He then went to Entire Meals, I consider?
Jon Kung: I didn’t truly comply with do it, however my finest buddy agreed for me. The subsequent factor I keep in mind was him driving me to Entire Meals the place we spent 45 minutes looking for components. Right now, there was a state of affairs the place I used to be the one individual in my whole constructing and the constructing consisted of 4 residences and I had entry to all of them. I just about used each single kitchen in every condo to whip up this four- or five-course meal for Kim in like an hour.
Have been you continue to drunk at this level?
JK: I sobered up by the point I obtained dwelling as a result of it’s like, you get into cook dinner mode: We’re fairly infamous for working underneath intense circumstances. By that point I used to be superb, and Kim got here in and we bonded over the meals, and it was a pleasant little expertise. Then one factor led to a different the place Kim, you got here down and ate possibly one or two extra instances since you had gigs within the metropolis. Then you definitely invited me to go to P-City? We went to Provincetown collectively and it seems we have been actually good journey buddies. Provincetown changed into Joshua Tree after which an incredible journey to Taiwan. After which I assume we realized we have been buddies.
You talked about within the podcast notes that you just two all the time wind up speaking about meals whenever you’re collectively. What was the impetus for the podcast?
JK: We had spent a while on the highway, and observed that we have been all the time speaking about meals or something linked to meals. Then as soon as, out of the blue, Kim talked about the podcast.
KC: The stuff we speak about is sort of instructional, so why don’t we put in a podcast kind and see if folks prefer it? We now have our combo: Folks love Jon’s content material on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. I’ve followers which might be all the time like, “Oh, I really like your mukbang, I like what you do with the meals.” I used to be like, “All proper, it feels pure to do a podcast.”
You’ve centered on East Asian cuisines and cooks. What conversations round these cuisines do you are feeling have been lacking from most people?
JK: I really feel like we’re two people who have an identical lived expertise, regardless that ethnically we’re utterly totally different, and have been raised in another way. Our love for meals is what unifies us. So far as who’s having that dialog, it seems like there aren’t that many foodies who seem like us. I imply, until you’re super-hyper-established like David Chang.
Kim and I’ve a chance to journey, we’re each extraordinarily adventurous, however on the similar time, we’re probably not out to do something however get pleasure from ourselves and share that love with folks. Meals podcasts should not straightforward to do as a result of finally it’s a fairly limiting matter. However we managed to develop to different elements of our personal cultures and identities.
KC: I believe our purpose with the podcast is to to not be simply one other podcast that talks about roast rooster in gravy, but in addition speak about the way in which meals connects with folks and the way in which folks can relate to meals, and possibly even unearth the generational trauma that comes with our meals.
I need to get into that, as a result of within the conversations round Asian American and second-generation Asian id, meals is handled as inseparable from that id. Why do you suppose that’s?
KC: For Koreans, once they see their buddies, the very first thing they are saying is, “Have you ever eaten but?” If you end up grown adults, the best factor you are able to do is go and get a meal with one another. Time simply goes by if you happen to’re sharing a meal and having a dialog over it. Meals can be one factor that everyone has an opinion on, whether or not you prefer it or not. It’s a straightforward option to relate to folks and it’s a straightforward option to get an perception into an individual’s psyche.
JK: In Chinese language tradition we additionally ask, “Have you ever eaten but?” even rather than different phrases akin to, “I really like you.” In Asian American communities — particularly locations the place you don’t have giant populations of Chinese language folks — there are a number of conditions the place, in all this detachment from that higher tradition, meals is your solely connection. Lots of people really feel very strongly about these items as a result of typically that’s their solely window into this a part of themselves. I name a number of the meals I make Chinese language meals, nevertheless it challenges what Chinese language American meals is. I get a number of pushback from Chinese language folks, like, “That isn’t the meals my grandmother made.” I’m like, “Nicely, you realize what? The meals that your grandmother made won’t have been good.”
I’d love to speak slightly bit extra about positioning yourselves as public opinion-havers on meals when so typically the reactions could be, “Nicely, how have you learnt what you’re speaking about? What’s your background? How dare you even recommend that what my grandmother made, that there may be a distinct option to make that?”
KC: Earlier than I used to be doing drag and all of the glamorous issues I’m doing now, I labored in quick meals. I labored as a barista. I labored as a sandwich maker at a manufacturing facility. I’ve labored in superb eating for a few years. I really feel like I undoubtedly have a voice and a number of my followers are curious about listening to it.
JK: We’re each the kind of folks that may strive one thing and if we don’t prefer it, we’ll strive it once more to ensure. And if we nonetheless don’t prefer it, we’ll strive the identical factor once more made by another person to simply be doubly certain. I don’t suppose both of us can title a dish that we can’t recognize not directly, as a result of we’ve been on the receiving finish of getting our meals bashed not directly. Having skilled that, we’re extra curious about gassing up different cultures’ meals as a result of there’s a lot to like. Really probably the most wonderful, pornographic factor is to hearken to Kim speak about meals.
Is there any meals both of you began off not liking and have come to understand extra?
KC: For me, it’s meals made with anchovies. Rising up, I used to be like, “That sounds gross.” However now that I’ve grown up, anchovies are considered one of my go-to pizza toppings. The salty, fishy style paired with the salty cheese and tomato sauce: chef’s kiss. Every time I made pasta at dwelling after I was younger, I used to be simply throwing in marinara or a jar of creamy sauce. However now do extra of an oil-based pasta dish the place I soften the anchovies with some garlic and chile flakes after which simply toss pasta in it. Quite simple, however so flavorful and good.
JK: I believe the principle points I’ve had with meals have been your typical childhood icks — something fishy, something bitter. One taste profile that I’ve the toughest time with, as a result of I’ve obtained a very delicate nostril, is something that’s too alkaline. Century eggs, as a result of they’ve been preserved in lye: This doesn’t style unhealthy, nevertheless it bodily hurts my nostril. I nonetheless would eat it anyway. There’s this Scandinavian preserved shark dish that apparently is like that.
KC: Koreans have a dish like that too, nevertheless it’s fabricated from skate wing. It simply reeks of ammonia.
Kim, clearly you’ve integrated meals into your drag. We speak about all these meals from totally different ethnic and cultural traditions, and I’m curious if both of you suppose there’s such a factor as queer meals?
KC: The very first thing I can consider is bottom-friendly meals. There are literally a number of diets and guidelines on the market for folks having anal intercourse. Excessive fiber, no dairy.
JK: Brunch to me has a component of queerness to it, just because it’s a typical time whenever you collect along with your chosen relations. The opposite factor is desserts — and never simply because there’s a queer vibe to desserts, however I do know so many cookie firms and ice cream firms which might be headed by queer folks. There’s one thing concerning the happiness behind them that’s engaging. I believe being queer lends you to being fearless creatively, which reveals in any approach that you just’re making an attempt to specific your self. I simply occur to do it via meals. Plenty of what I do, I credit score to being a queer individual as a result of it liberates you to be free from societal roadblocks usually related to poisonous masculinity. Folks aren’t as expressive once they don’t really feel like they’re allowed to be and queer individuals are simply magically the alternative.
Your podcast is all about being enthusiastic about meals in all these other ways. What’s your primary tip for turning into extra open-minded and interested by meals?
KC: My factor is to all the time method every thing with respect. Even when it’s an ingredient or a taste mixture that’s unfamiliar to you, don’t ever say, “Oh, that’s disgusting,” as a result of to someone else, that’s very offensive. Each ingredient has a life, they usually give that life to be consumed by you. Simply deal with it with respect that it deserves.
JK: What’s so nice about being an adventurous eater, if you end up making an attempt new issues consistently, is that if you happen to don’t like one thing, that may be a number of seconds of your life that you could be not get pleasure from. However if you happen to strive one thing new and you find yourself loving it, you’ve simply found a brand new love, and you’ll like it endlessly. The danger is certainly value it, if only for the sake of that discovery. It’s one other supply of pleasure that you just’ll all the time have for the remainder of your life.
KC: Additionally making a persona out of not liking issues is so pathetic. Like, “I don’t like raspberries.” Why?
This interview has been edited and condensed for readability.